Remember Oscar Grant
DMZ 
On December 31st, 2008, Oscar Grant left his grandmother’s birthday party to welcome in 2009 with his friends. He would be dead by morning. I had been at the New Year’s Eve George Clinton P-Funk show in San Francisco and took BART home. As I dozed off on the long BART ride home I never suspected that someone sworn to protect us could kill me or one of my loved ones.
If we had taken the BART train going to the East Bay we could easily have been the victims of overzealous BART police at the Fruitvale station that night. Police officers in the bay area, in my experience, beat up and Taser everyone, then sort it out later. The police dispatcher called to the arriving officers, “No weapons.” The BART train operator told Anthony Pirone, Johannes Mehserle’s mentor and the first BART officer on the scene, that this was the end of a “typical New Year’s Eve” scuffle. The cops didn’t even break up a fight. It was over when they got there.
I started the Remember Oscar Grant page because I am scared for our society. I am scared of the implications when there are limited or no repercussions for this and similar killings by police officers. I am scared for our society if police officers no longer have to check if they are holding a gun or a Taser before pulling the trigger.
Johannes was the first cop to be convicted in the state of California of a felony involving the death of a suspect in the line of duty. He is either the most irresponsible cop in California’s history or a murderer. The trial was moved to Los Angeles where a jury of his “peers” saw fit to convict him of involuntary manslaughter.
Johannes Mehserle: “Until you can rule out 100 percent it’s not a gun, it would be silly to assume. That’s how police officers die.”
I believe that Johannes is inherently scared of minorities due to his upbringing and what society tells him. If he thought that Grant had a gun why would he pull his Taser? If Johannes thought that his mentor Pirone was threatened by Oscar Grant with a gun it strains belief that Johannes would pull his Taser. Mehserle knew where his Taser was, he pulled it out twice before as is evidenced by the pictures on Oscar Grant’s phone. There is a picture of Mehserle looking right at his gun holster as he pulls out his gun seconds before shooting Oscar Grant in the back.
Ex-BART cop Anthony Pirone could have been beating up one of my friends. Pirone, whom even Johannes described in his testimony as “enraged,” will now be known as the mentor for the most irresponsible cop in California’s history. Pirone was fired for his actions that night. His partner, Marysol Domenici, whom he was dating, was fired as well for lying about the events that occurred. I have been beaten up by the police before in San Jose. When I saw the video of the two hundred plus pound former Marine Pirone kneeling on Oscar Grant’s neck, I remembered how painful it was to have an angry cop, pumped full of adrenaline, putting his full weight and force on my neck. I remember how much I instinctively twisted and turned. Did I deserve to be killed for this instinctive reaction?
That is what the Johannes Mehserle supporters would have you believe. The unarmed Oscar Grant, being restrained by multiple BART police officers, was resisting arrest and, because of that, his killer should not be punished.
Todd Mehserle: “Johannes was on the platform for two minutes and remained calm. He made a tragic mistake. Get over it.”
The extremists who terrorize the ROG page also believe that Grant deserved to be killed because he had been to prison before for non-violent offences. These police worshipping trolls think that law enforcement officers can do no wrong. Todd Mehserle, Johannes father, recently told the Oscar Grant family and their 4,500+ Facebook supporters to “Get over it.”
This is the man that raised Johannes. This is what Johannes was taught. Johannes was suspended from high school for picking fights with African Americans. Johannes’ father thinks that if a cop kills a citizen of this country, a citizen that same cop has sworn an oath to protect, and is then convicted, it is acceptable to verbally abuse the grieving family and their supporters. This is on par with right-wing Christians who protest military burials for gay Iraq/Afghanistan veterans killed in the line of duty.
The Grant family is grieving. A daughter will not have a father.
Instead of Todd Mehserle saying, “I am here to do everything that I can for your family in order to alleviate some of your suffering due to my sons mistake”, he chooses to disrespectfully antagonize the Oscar Grant family and supporters. Todd blames everyone but his son who pulled the trigger. This is not someone who is trying to build sympathy for his cause. These are the acts of a small minded man who cannot fathom that a cop who kills an unarmed person could be wrong under any circumstances.
The thinly veiled racial innuendo, never mind the outright hatred posted by Mehserle supporters on the ROG page, reminds us that we still have a long way to go in this country. There have been many hate spammers posting Nazi imagery, pictures of the grieving Grant family with captions like, “Who’s laughing now?”, and even decomposing dead bodies as taunts.
I recently asked Oscar Grant’s Uncle, Cephus Johnson, if he could picture a day when he could talk to Johannes Mehserle. He said that if Johannes became an advocate against police brutality and for the involvement of the federal government in local police killings then he could envision that day.
We are still waiting to hear back from Todd Mehserle. Let’s hope that when all is said and done both Todd and Johannes come to the realization that the family and friends of Oscar Grant deserve respect instead of contempt.
Johannes Mehserle: “I didn’t expect to walk through those doors. I didn’t think I’d be convicted at all.”
The killings of unarmed citizens by local police are not even tracked by the federal government. The offending police officers routinely escape with no penalties whatsoever. They are given paid leave and then brought back to work. Only when there is monitoring and repercussions for their actions will substantive change occur.
Please take 30 seconds and sign the two petitions below
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/remember_oscar_grant_fruitvale_bart_memorial
Reader Comments (42)
Wow you are so full of shit on this. Never bothering to tell what REALLY happened as you just LOVE to do. FUck you
What about the OG supporters who talk hate against whites and police in general? There have been MANY racial comments by your supporters and you never banned them. Plus none of the JM supporters ever threatened anyones life or said OG deserved to die, but when OG supporters say racial or threatening things on your page, you do nothing and say "it's understandable". Fuck you and your double standard, 1 sided thinking. You never said on here what OG and his friends did that night when this tragic accident occurred. Like I said before, put ALL the facts on here instead of what you conveniently want to. You're a fucking prick
Hi Shane,
Everyone meet the racist cop-worshipping internet troll Shane who calls every person who disagrees with him a 'bitch' and then asks, 'Are you mad?' Very tiring.
A) Did Oscar Grant reach out and make Johannes a moron? No. Did Oscar Grant start a fight with Pirone and attempt to beat him up? No. Pirone and his partner were fired for good reason.
B) I never banned any OG supporters just removed any incendiary posts because there was no specific target from the OG page's supporters, just frustration in general towards police killing another young man from their community.
Here is an example of someone else that I banned, "SWIFT JUSTICE-NO OSCAR GRANT" and then went on to call him the N-word and hurl insults.
I banned you Shane because you would not stop calling the black women on the ROG page bitches. Even your girlfriend called you a troll. She is an OG supporter.
Did the OG supporters post Nazi crap or images of decaying bodies or even pictures of the grieving Grant family the day of the conviction saying "WHoooHooo!" The JM supporters are the petty and jealous ones and you Shane are the worst of the bunch because you do not see yourself as racist. I am sure Todd Mehserle and you would get along great.
Byanymeans Gonzales @Todd Mesherle get a life. I strongly suggest you worry about your security and the well being of your son. You talk alot of trash about minorities and my thinking is you came to this page to spark confusion. Well guess what....you got it. You have alot to say about the residents of Oakland and thats not okay. What you... forgot is this is where the BLACK PANTHER PARTY WAS AND IS. We will not take what your son did to Oscar without doing anything.. Its called the calm before the storm. So keep all these antics up but your focused on the wrong things I promise you that. Look around and over your shoulders we ARE gonna make you and your son pay. You may want to move out of California. Do you like the color Black Todd?
Yeah I see you made NO comment to a direct threat like that.
http://www.facebook.com/RememberOscarGrant#!/RememberOscarGrant/posts/160013744042243
Candace Baker
Rioting/picketing/boycotting is only effective when organized and directed properly and efficiently. If we direct violence and non~tolerance at the proper people/agencies/departments we speak louder, clearer, and stronger than if we behave ...like uneducated, uncivilized beasts and create violence and chaos among ourselves. Now more than ever we as human beings with rights need to stand in unity and make ourselves heard! We cannot allow ourselves to be controlled by american slavery: demographic segregation, racial profiling, corrupt politics/unjust legal systems, and disregarded police brutality! If we dont speak now, when will we? How many more Oscar Grants does it take for us to stand up for our lives and the lives of our fellow people?!
Leon Hawkins FUCK MEHSERLE AND ALL THA CRACKER ASS KLAN INBREADS THAT SUPPRT HIM ,ESPECIALLY HIS FAMILY!!!
I can keep going on and on. You just allow it because it's all for OG and you dont care. Admit it. All the ghetto trash that's been saying shit like that were the ones I directed my comments to and you said NOTHING for it, except that "they are angry they have the right". Well I'm angry at the IGNORANCE of your page and I have the RIGHT to point out your faults to your own rules of the page. Go fuck yourself bro, hope whoever reads this checks your page out and it'll prove what I say with your double standard bullshit.
Just to step in, I think it's fruitless to engage in flame wars. Anger begets anger unfortunately. I think it would be more productive to have dialogue on the subject. Postulating extremes about Grant supporters or otherwise is rather unproductive. Either making Grant a martyr to the cause of anti-police brutality, or demonizing Mesherle and making him a scapegoat for all that the Oakland police have done wrong is unproductive. What has martyrdom and scapegoating done for humanity? Really only facilitated violent conflict and enflamed rhetoric that produces little change. If the incident between Grant and police is held up as something that is endemic however, then anti-police brutality activists can propel themselves towards *peaceful* protest and civil disobedience. But if we make Mesherle simply the target for all of our hatred for the police, then what do we have? Regardless of their problems, the police are indispensable to the safety of our communities. Places like East and West Oakland, Hunter's Point, Visitation Valley, Lakeview, et al, would probably be war-zones without them. Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. Things like the ROG page are great places for dialogue to occur, but when each side are calling each other either Nazis or Communists, little change in thinking is going to occur.
Well said vurt834. If you go to the ROG page you can see that DMZ works to further dialog, his comments ask for moderation and safety and changes to our system with respect to police abuse of power. Guys like Shane can only focus on the few angry and misguided people commenting and use that to tar everyone as the same. He has never made a substantive point, only spouting hateful personal attacks. It seems he sees the world as very cut and dry, good and evil, black and white. There is no complexity or gray areas, Police are 100% good, Oscar is 100% bad. I've met many people with this worldview, and most of them are unhappy, hateful people who spend lots of energy trying to tear people down they don't understand. For Shane any one trying to point out the many complexities with this issue like you have above are racists who hate the police and white people like him. No matter that Oscar Grant is one of many deaths due to police brutality, that Oscar was a young troubled kid that had made serious mistakes but that didn't deserve to die on that day in that place, that he left a child behind parent-less. For Shane, racism and hatred is the only reason he can imagine for being upset at the lack of accountability and double standards on display in this case. If Shane wanted to have a real discussion about abuse of authority and responsible regulations to ensure accountability within the law enforcement community, I'd be more than willing to have an adult conversation, sans name calling, with him or anyone else that supports Mehserle. Unfortunately to date he's only been interested in unproductive and hateful personal attacks.
This isn't about the color of your skin.
If you grew up poor... white,black,asian.. doesn't matter... there are a few extra hurdles to go through.
That is the real world. It sucks. Don't make this about something it isnt'...
While reducing growing up poor to a "few hurdles" is a bit much considering how few actual make it over all of them, you have a good point that police abuse of authority affects all races, and falls heaviest on the poor. It most certainly does. But that doesn't mean race isn't an issue in this case as well. There are many things we take from this real world tragedy, including the disproportionate police abuse in the African American and Latino communities, as evidenced by the makeup of our prison system. In the real world Oscar Grant was a young, black man. And unfortunately people of color are far more likely to be targeted by police. It sucks, and it is about the color of their skin in some sense. I think it's entirely appropriate to acknowledge those uncomfortable facts and try to bring attention to these trends.
With that said, attention does need to be brought to the fact that too many people of all races and sexes and ages are killed by police in this country. Before we can find some effective solutions, we need more information. We need to track police killings and look for patterns. Data and analysis would help identify effective ways to regulate police officers with as little impact on their ability to do a verify difficult job.
Just because the police abuse their authority with people of all races, doesn't mean that this isn't also about race. And even if you ignore the race issues here, there are plenty of things to focus on in order to improve our country. Instead of asking someone to talk about the aspect of this tragedy that means most to you, and ignore the rest, lets have some real discussions and look for some real solutions so things like this can occur less and less in the future.
The whole case with Oscar Grant was not apart of police abusing authority. It was about a poorly trained officer who made a tragic mistake. Oscar didn't deserve to die, but through the "cause and effect" phenomenon, the choices he made that night was what made the outcome of his death and people seem to be blind to that fact. From what this article shows, it makes Oscar look like some innocent man that the white cops just went out of their way to harass then execute him in front of everyone. Which is CLEARLY not the case. I mean if you wanna make a site like this, do it with the Rodney King case. This had NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, and I hate to sound like an ass, but with how SOME people becoming all "wanting to serve justice" and rioting over this, those people need to GET OVER IT ONLY with the fact that it had NOTHING to do with race. There was no evidence to prove it was with race.
And for those who say "only god can judge Oscar Grant for his past", think on what you say because it's the same thing as "only God can judge Mehserle in this accident". And I can also say that when those VERY SAME people say that "GOD IS NOT MOCKED, WHATEVER A MAN SOWETH, THAT SHALL HE ALSO REAP"(a quote I have from the OG fan site), the same can go for Oscar Grant. People say he was a changed man after getting out of prison in September, but after breaking curfew, getting drunk, starting fights on the BART and resisting arrest, he DID reap what he sowed in a way. My personal opinion is the ONLY person that you can charge with murder her is Karma.
If you want more proof on this case, feel free to check out this link. I can provide actual proof on my side of this, but all the maker of this page can offer is opinions. Evidence > opinions buddy :)
http://rlslawyers.com/component/content/article/247
@Shane: So I banned you from the OG page and you are still trolling.
Your "Proof" is 100% propaganda. Their site also says that Mehserle would be released on bail last week.
I am interested to know why you feel the need to bait people who are already pissed off. Please answer me that.
@Shane: Below is only one recent example of what JM supporters have been inundating the OG supporters with. This poor woman had the audacity last week to ask Todd Mehserle to post links to what 'facts' he was referring to.
[So Mehserle supporters don't threaten huh? Wonder what they consider this?? All capitals is a Mehserle supporter. Lower case is me. This person also made good on their promise to find my address. Luckily for me it is old, nearly 10 years HOWEVER I have CHILDREN. I don't and have not EVER threatened anyone on this page nor Johannes support pages. Yeah I called Todd an asshole because he was a jerk to me when all I did was request what he said we all need to read pertaining to the case. ]
Thumbs up. Me too. We may be neighbors!!!! (December 8 at 10:18pm)
********* ST-HAYWARD
And I'll pass this threat onto the authorities like Todd does. (December 8 at 10:14pm)
WELL, I COULD ALWAYS LOOKE YOU UP ONA A DATA BASE, FIND OUT WHERE YOU LIVE THEN COME OVER AND SPLIT YOUR SCALP WITH A HATCHET. WOULDN'T BE HIDING.
Hahaha OMG u r special. Message me all you want, call me whatever name u please ... at the end of the day, I don't hide behind a fake name and a generic wallpaper from Microsoft Windows. Have a wonderful day!!!! (December 8 at 8:23pm)
OSCAR GRANT IS DEAD-THATS THE GOOD THING
YOU BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL CUNT!
I wouldn't consider him a real jm supporter and who was that anyway? Plus I don't troll anymore, but the fact on your double standards and lack of facts on your page pisses more people than me off. You say you don't approve of violence, threats, or racist hate speech on you page, but you allow it for oscar grant supporters. I have seen multiple comments with cracker and kkk on your site yet on jm sites, do you ever see porch money or nigger on there? Of course not! You are a shame of an admin for any page. And with your post on your site about how many blacks in prison, what does that have to do with anything? Are you implying that police arrest innocent black men on a daily basis? Admit it, you just hate cops. You still haven't posted any valid facts to this case, only opinions and excuses.
And regarding the threat to u (if its even valid since I see no screen names) I do support reporting that to police. You must admit that the oscar grant case has nothing to do with police brutality and I find it sad that you do try to link the two for your own means. You act like oscar grant was this great person but in actuality his own actions lead up to his fateful death. Now say if he did nothing wrong that night and then got shot, I can see your point of it being racial and police brutality. And do try to bring facts on here instead of other excuses for an argument.
Plus why don't you ever say on your site about how people should act around police? I've seen many who just talk bad about police and decide to "act a fool" with them. So you condone to police hate but not preventative measures so things like this don't happen again? You think police are out to get people but you forget how those very same people treat officers with blatant disrespect. So you should also use this oscar grant thing as a way to teach these people what not to do with police instead of putting all the blame on them. Would make you not look like a regular cop hating hoodlum :)
[Remember Oscar Grant: 1) Be safe. Take all measures that you can to avoid contact with police. 2) Know your rights within the law. 3) Become an advocate for change.]
[Remember Oscar Grant: Please keep it peaceful out there even if Mehserle walks free today. Stay safe.]
[Remember Oscar Grant: Oscar Grant's grandfather, Oscar Grant Sr., 65 of Hayward, is calling for "calm" in Oakland. "Don't riot,'' he said. "Life didn't stop when my grandson was killed. We have to live here. They could give him 100 years and it won't bring my grandson back."]
Stopped trolling? HAHAHAHAHA!!! You only see what you want to see Shane. Take your head out of the sand. There are issues with minorities in our culture which even your girlfriend has attested to first hand!
I am not "implying" that police target minorities at all Shane. I am stating it categorically and that is a fact my friend. Minorities are 5X more likely to be victims of police harassment.
Another fact is that JM is the first officer to be convicted by a jury for killing an unarmed suspect in the state of California.
I don't hate cops. I believe that the justice system should be the same for everyone and this is currently not the case. I have stated multiple times that I live in San Francisco where there has been one (1) police killing of a suspect this year. Why do the police departments in the East Bay kill way more people whom they have sworn to protect? The OPD alone killed two unarmed citizens within 48 hours?!?!?
But still you could use another case other than the Oscar Grant considering the fact that the loads of evidence that prove that not only was it not racially motivated but also an accident. And all the cases ever brought up on the site, all the suspects were resisting arrest.
Why do people keep calling this Shane character a troll? This isn't trolling. A differing opinion isn't a troll. Shane is right about the OG page and the admin, whoever that is, that handles it. I was a member of that page but removed myself due to the outrageous behaviour of some on there and the inaction from the admin.
@Shane: The name of the page is Remember Oscar Grant. Here is a link to a shooting yesterday. The police didn't even try to talk to this guy before they shot him!!
www.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_water_nozzle_shooting
@Locky: Even his girlfriend called him an internet troll. It has nothing to do with his opinions it is all about his baiting of people who are already angry. Shane was banned from the ROG page for calling everyone bitches who disagreed with him. I was laughing at his "not trolling" because he even found this page after he was banned for instigating and name calling. That means that he is still looking at the ROG page and getting upset and can't do anything about it because he is currently banned from ROG. Definitely an internet troll.
As evidenced here I am perfectly willing to have polite discourse if Shane refrains from calling people "bitches" and using thinly veiled racist innuendo.
You, Locky, used your good judgment to remove yourself from a page that was offensive to you. Unfortunately Shane and Todd Mehserle, Johannes Mehserle's father do not think like you do and continued to instigate the OG supporters to feed into their delusions and prejudices about OG supporters.
When Cephus Johnson (Oscar Grant's uncle and the most outspoken member of the Grant family) said that he could picture a day when he could talk with Johannes, Todd Mehserle quickly vanished.
What I have learned from Shane's instigation on the ROG page and Todd Mehserle's disappearance is that there is a subset of people in the US who think that police could never be wrong under any circumstances.
OK Remember, what about people calling anyone that opposed them, who were white, a cracker or a KKK member? What about the blatant threats that you have not called out? See I'm not the only one who noticed it and Locky thank you for seeing what I've been trying to say. If you wanna be taken seriously ROG, then start doing what you say you are doing. Ban the racist remarks from some of the people on your side and I just might not have a problem with you. Until then, I'll stay with keeping tabs on your page. So I take it a black man calling a white guy a cracker/KKK is OK but it's not OK for a white man to call a black person a bitch or nigger or anything like that? Seems like you think it's OK
Plus I find it REALLY FUNNY that you put all the blame on the cops that night. What about how Oscar and his friends acted beforehand? What about how they acted when the police got there, trying to get back on the train and badmouthing the cops? What about the fact that Oscar was out past his curfew(for parolees you can't be out past 10pm), getting drunk and being in fights AS A PAROLEE, and resisting arrest? You are quick to play the blame game on the cops for that night but what about Oscar's actions that led up to it? Why not even ATTEMPT to see how it could have been accidental? Why not use this as an example on what not to do with police? Think on that.
@Shane: If you can't take being called names then you shouldn't be baiting pissed off black people. This is what got you banned. The ROG page didn't come to you or the other race baiters...
I think that you can agree at this point that there were many factors that contributed to the shooting by Mehserle of the unarmed Oscar Grant. Oscar excersised poor judgement. He should not have been killed for it.
The cops didn't break up a fight. It was over when they got there.
Protect and serve? More like shoot first and sort out later.
IF, in Mehserle's words "Enraged" Ex-BART Cop Pirone (who was fired for his used of force in the incident), wasn't screwing his partner...or wasn't prone to "Enrage"-ment...
IF Mehserle used any judgment at all to even see what weapon was in his hand...
When police stop killing unarmed civilians, whom they are sworn to protect, I am sure that the racial remarks will stop.
Wow so you admit it then. You let them say racial remarks without doing anything. Thank you for putting it here for everyone to see. And also thanks for proving that you assumed my comments were "veiled" racist remarks. Yeah fuck you once again for proving to be a double standard ass who doesn't deserve to run a page for Oscar. So basically for you its ok for them to say racist remarks about whites. Good job! Just because I talk shit about ghetto trash cop hating lowlives never was meant to be about blacks but about scumbags like you who use this to stir up hate to law. Oh and since I wanna be an ass, you have 4900 something fans on that page, but only 129 signed the petition.... How sad is that?
@Shane: 130 pal. Once again. You were banned for race baiting.
Race baiting is any form of speech, actions, or other forms of communication, to anger, intimidate or incite a person or race of people,[1] to behave in ways that are inimical, and often harmful, to their personal or group interests.
And once again you assume I was targeting a race. I have never specified any race. Lawless lowlives come in many colors which your page has proven. I will give you fair warning: if the white racist remarks do not get taken off your page, since you are admin and you know about them, your page will be shut down. I already copied/pasted what you said about knowing about the racist comments so I do have proof. And don't think I won't follow through with it, I'm going through proper channels to notify facebook admins :) you mad bro?
If I had a nickel for every time you said that Shane...
ROG still up. Very Happy.
Not for long, now that I have the evidence that you knowingly allow racist remarks about whites. So basically with the way you and your followers think, that automatically makes you racist
Oh and good one with you saying you are happy too. I just saw your comment on your page saying you were pissed :). Good luck with trying to have your fans report me though. All that's going to do is bring faceebook admins attention to your page and once they see what kind of comments you allow, its bye bye to your page and a celebration for me.
Shane: "Just because I talk shit about ghetto trash cop hating lowlives never was meant to be about blacks." Wow. I guess it is true that most racists don't think that they are racists.
Doesn't sound racist at all. By you thinking that ghetto cop hating lowlives is directed only to people of color makes you sound like the racist one. Whites can be ghetto lowlives as well. Good luck again though. You wil not win this
Oh and if you are going to quote me, show the whole post instead of what u want to show to make it sound racist. "Just because I talk shit about ghetto trash cop hating lowlives never was meant to be about blacks but about scumbags like you who use this to stir up hate to law." Nice try again. :)
I am a white woman who lived at east 22nd. and 25th Ave. I never had a racial problem with anyone. I got along and was friendly with all of my neighbors. I know it is seen as a bad place by some people. To others it is just home. Lets cut out the slurs on BOTH SIDES. At least save them for a individual person, not a whole race. I was not raised to see any difference in people based on skin color. I see people for who they are. I know raceisim exists. It will continue until everyone stops making it a" color" thing instead of a "person. " thing. I think J.M. is afraid of black people and never should have passed any kind of psych. test to be a cop of any kind. Is anyone looking into how these people are picked and trained? I wonder how many more bart cops like him are out there. That scares me.
Shane you get blocked on facebook and now you are here starting trouble. You dony know what the exchange was with me and Tom Mesherle. He inboxed me and his reaction to me warranted me to say way more then what I said to him. You on the other hand are a heckler. Your like the fat bully at school that stirs up mess to get attention. Stay off of Oscar' page with your Trolling and stay out of my inbox. You lowlife. Im sick of you. If you really want to hash this out lets meet for lunch one day soon in the Fruitvale district.
"If you really want to hash this out lets meet for lunch one day soon in the Fruitvale district."
Is physical violence your option there? So you don't like someones opinion so you imply a physical altercation between the two of you. That is quite childish. Reading all these comments and that Shigman hasn't been rude at all and everyone dismisses him like a troll because he doesn't agree with the article.
I think a lot of people here need to take a long hard look at themselves.
@David:
**Shane A Smith: Remember Oscar Grant. remember him as the violent drunk drug dealing piece of shit of a father that he was. yes I will remember him and will make me happy to think he is dead.**
This is the Shane who you are defending. This, and many, many more comments like this is why the OG supporters are sick of Shane.
He is a race baiting troll. Even his girlfriend thinks so.
@David:
You say, "Shigman hasn't been rude at all" yet the very first comment on this thread by Shigman is "Wow you are so full of shit on this. Never bothering to tell what REALLY happened as you just LOVE to do. FUck you" How is this not rude again?
And I'm not sure how you get violence as the chosen option based on a request to meet for lunch in Fruitvale, unless you think that area is some sort of war zone. If any offer to meet in person to hash out our differences is considered a threat of violence, then we really have no where to go between name calling on the internet and all out civil war. And I'm sure Shane could request a neutral location if he was really interested in a productive dialog.
This is an emotional charged subject and I agree that people need to step back, evaluate their comments, and treat people with more respect if they disagree with each other. Nothing helps this more than face to face meetings where we are forced to accept that we're all just people trying to live our lives the best we can, despite having differing opinions.
Honestly it is the safety of distance that allows people like Shane, and reactionary ROG supporters alike, to make the hateful and rude comments with little or no repercussions or risks. If these people were to say the same things to a real persons face, they would be asking to get punched in the face, and thus far less likely to say such wrongheaded things due to the potential physical backlash. If you really want people to take a long hard look at themselves, maybe we should put ourselves in a position to see those that disagree with us as real people with genuine concerns for the direction of our country. Then we can actually make some progress instead of yelling past each other.
Momus: Dont try to say that kind of thing to where you want a lunch or some shit. Funny how you try to make it sound nice but everyone knows you mean a violent altercation since you threatened the lives of JM and his father on a post on ROG which is STILL there. Plus once I messaged you telling you how stupid it was to do that, you had the nerve to threaten me too. Hey DMX AKA Remember Oscar Grant: You already know why I posted comments like that and that is because you act as if Oscar Grant was just taking a regular day, whistling to himself or some shit, acting like the police just got him to the ground and shot him because he was black. Your blatant twisting of facts and instigating more anger towards cops, trying to make this look intentional, and posting select facts to try to make it a race thing, is pitiful. You already know of the threats and racist comments towards whites on your FB page, but the moment someone says something negative towards the cop haters, you defend them! I've already said this many times before but to the new readers I'll repeat it: This had nothing to do with police brutality. The video itself actually proved that point by which even Oscar's friends AND Burris said that this was a tragic accident. With you trying to make it look intentional and trying to make more of an outcry of it is beyond sad but downright pathetic. You try to say I'm racist, but post 1 comment on here that I said where I targeted a race. You can't because I have never said that. And yeah I posted that comment that you pasted here months ago due to what I found out: he used to be a drug dealer, he was out past curfew(on parole you cant be out past 10pm) getting drunk, getting in fights, why was he not at home with his daughter? Why did he resist arrest?
Oh and FYI, Momus AKA Byanymeans Gonzales, is apart of a group that is now considered a terrorist organization of BAMN(By Any Means Necessary)
Ooops my bad wrong Person not Momus but of course Byanymeans. I think people would know that anyway considering it's in her name lol. And not ONCE have I seen any posts on the ROG site saying on what NOT to do when confronted by police
@Shane: You have been continuously warned to treat people with respect at the ROG page and here. I think you have some good points to make and and it's unfortunate that you cannot make them without disrespect, condescension and attempts to incite anger.
As you've figured out I am not Byanymeans. And DMZ is not the admin of this page, I am. DMZ asked me not to ban you after your first two comments (and having followed your antics on ROG from a distance, and with your extremely rude posts to start here, I was ready to). So I've let this thread go a week to see if you would lighten up. I've written several respectful posts acknowledging you have a point that some of the ROG supporters have gone over the line, that the police in general deserve our respect and that their jobs are very difficult, while pointing out that in this case JM made a bad decision. A jury and judge in a court of law agree. This is not an opinion, it is a fact, unless you don't believe in our system of justice.
JM made a very big mistake and killed someone he shouldn't have. Whatever OG's past was, whatever mistakes he made that night (and there were many), a court of law agreed that he should NOT have been killed. I've tried to engage with you in a productive discussion on these topics, but you're only interested in condescension, disrespectful accusations and attempts to incite further flame wars.
I really would like your point of view around here. I think it is valuable to Byanymeans and others to understand that the police in general do a very difficult job to the best of their abilities. That while cases like these happen, and as often is it feels like they occur, are really rare when one considers how many officers are working every day. Especially considering how many situations like the one OG put himself in are handled without incident by the police. The fact the JM is the first officer in California history to be convicted of a felony of this kind clearly underscores that point.
Unfortunately it appears you are unable to control your hatred and biases when commenting on here. Unlike Byanymeans you refuse to tone it down. Byanymeans made an awful comment that you've quoted, a comment I feel is way out of line and he/she should be rightly called out for it. But Byanymeans has expressed regret for making that comment, has denied being a part of the BAMN network, and has denounced violence as an option. Byanymeans has also made similar mistakes in tact and approach that you have and has also been called out for it. The difference is Byanymeans expressed regret and has dialed it back some. In a way your incessant rudeness and accusations has helped Byanymeans see how lashing out with the intent to provoke fear and anxiety does nothing to further their cause. And he/she has you and other JM supporters to thank for that in a way.
The difference with you is you have never once acknowledged that you've gone to far. That you mock peoples pain and anger when they are looking for a way to get over it. ROG is a page to help people remember oscar grant and to work through the anger and distrust events like this create. There are certainly things said about JM that are out of line, and I know DMZ has tried to help these people get over their anger and use their energy to take positive steps out of this as opposed to irrationally lashing out. DMZ create the ROG page not only to remember Oscar and bring attention to unjustified police killings, but also as a release valve for the emotions the Oscar Grant shooting unleashed, and to help the community work through their anger so this doesn't explode into more violence. You're point of view could go a long way to help with this, but instead of sharing your position in a productive manner, you only work to bring out the worst in people, to inflame the anger, to keep alive that which you claim to despise.
I hope someday you realize that to date you've missed a great opportunity to help change peoples minds with respect to the police. In my opinion you've only furthered the damage that bad decisions like the one JM made cause, you've only inspired more irrational anger and fear and anxiety directed at those tasked with protecting us. Please do some self-reflection, ignore others faults around you for a few minutes, and focus on what you're trying to accomplish with all the effort you've put in on the ROG page and here. Do you really want people to see and understand your point of view? Do you really want people to respect the police and their supporters? Or are you just interested in furthering the cycle of violence you decry?
You're refusal to talk to people like they're real human beings, to accept that ROG supporters want a better world for both police officers and the citizens they protect, and to treat people with respect, has left me no choice but to ban you from this site as well. If you want to discuss my decision further, in a respectful manner, you can email me on this site. I'm more than willing to remove the ban if you make an effort to be more respectful to others, especially if you don't agree with them.
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This comment has been removed due to an implied threat. Any kind of language implying or suggesting potential harm to others will not be tolerated.
Peace everyone. Remember that it is almost the birthday of our Lord , Jesus? And please, remember that when Oscar was breathing his last breaths , those bart police did not know who he was or what he had done before. As far as I can tell, Oscar had a job and was being responsible in his daily life. This happened on a double celebration night for this young man. He may have stepped over the line of good conduct that night, but he did not deserve to loose his life. Oscar is now in a place where he is beyond all the petty garbage that some of you are engaging in. Shame on anyone who uses the death of another human being to spread hate and anger. Lets see if we can all grow up and take this back out of the school yard. At least for the Holiday season? Please boys? May your hearts be filled with the peace of the Angels this season and always.
I'm a pig fucker.